Plant-Based and Healthy
Plant-Based and Healthy
How to become plant-based and stay healthy as a mom, child or senior - with guest Brenda Davis, RD
In Episode #1 I chat with Brenda Davis to discuss her plant-based journey and her experience being a pioneer in the plant-based community.
In this conversation we discuss:
- Taking responsibility for the impact your food choices have on animals and climate change.
- Her experience in battling the dairy industry to fortify plant milks with key nutrients.
- Some highlights from her most recent book, Nourish.
- Kids are healthier on a plant-based diet.
- Nutrient needs when pregnant and as a senior on a plant-based diet.
- Progress not perfection for success on a plant-based diet.
- A powerful patient testimony of getting their life back on a plant-based diet.
Resources:
“You cannot get through a single day without having an impact on the world around you. What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make.”
― Jane Goodall
- Website: brendadavisrd.com
- Latest book, Nourish: https://nourishthebook.com/
- Previous books: Kick Diabetes Essentials and the Kick Diabetes Cookbook: http://kickdiabetes.ca/
Becoming Vegan: Comprehensive Edition - https://becomingvegan.ca/
Want to support the show? Help us by subscribing and leaving a review on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts. It only takes a few minutes and helps more people find the episodes.
About your host: Dr. Travis Cox - BA, DC, MSc is a Doctor of Chiropractic with a focus on Functional Medicine and plant-based nutrition. He is the creator of PBandHealthy.com and host of the Plant-Based and Healthy podcast. Connect with him on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @yourvegandoc #pbandhealthy. And remember, individuals inspire and communities create change!
Audio credit: Thank you @katetrajanmusic for your lovely voice on the intro/outro and @craigritchiemusic for the super catchy music track for the intro/outro... many thanks!
Dr. Travis Cox:
Welcome back listeners and viewers, wherever you're tuning in from. Today, we have a guest, Brenda Davis. Brenda, welcome to our podcast today.
Brenda Davis :
Well, thank you very much. I sure appreciate being here.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Absolutely. So we'll get right into it. I'm just going to have you pretend in your mind's eye that you're in the plant-based and healthy time machine. And you're going to go back in time to when you first became plant-based and just share that experience with our listeners.
Brenda Davis:
Oh, for sure. Well, I can tell you, it was in the 1970s that I started getting interested. And early seventies, I was in high school and I just ... I don't know. I just love the idea of vegetarian. I'd never really met real life vegetarians. I love the idea that we could survive without killing animals. And I just found myself slowly gravitating in that direction. And so I was just eating more lentils and beans and tofu and less meat. But it wasn't until 1989 that I actually made the leap to becoming completely plant based.
Brenda Davis:
And it's so interesting because I was a registered dietician at the time. I was a community nutritionist. Everything, all my nutrition education tools were based on Canada's food guide and the four food groups. Two of which, of course, were dominated by animal products. You had the meat and alternates and you had the dairy foods. And for me, the motivation was simple. I couldn't justify contributing to pain, suffering and death of other beings and a big carbon footprint and all of that when I really didn't have to. I thought it was just unnecessary.
Brenda Davis:
I actually had never really met a vegetarian dietician or a vegan dietician, especially. And so I was really scared. I thought, I'm going to be ousted from my profession. I wondered if I would be able to stay and practice as a dietician. Because back then, vegetarian and vegan diets were viewed as really risky, especially for children and pregnant and lactating women. And I had a four and a one year old at the time that I made the switch. And this is over 30 years ago, so my kids are 37 and 34 now. But I was really certain that as a dietician, I could make sure these plant-based diets were completely adequate. And I just wanted to do whatever I could do to help people that have made that choice to become vegetarian or vegan, do so in good health. And so I wanted to create guidelines, I wanted to help people succeed in this task.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Wow. That's so awesome. Because of course, like you said at the time, there weren't a big presence of plant-based diets in nutrition and-
Brenda Davis:
No.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Dietetics.
Brenda Davis:
No.
Dr. Travis Cox :
So that was quite bold move of yours, of course. And it sounds like you transitioned to being plant-based slowly over time, like you started including lentils and legumes. But then you had this aha moment where you realized animal cruelty and the welfare was so important to you that you had to make the jump and the leap. So what was your experience like with your colleagues? Because like you said, it sounds like you had a bit of an uphill battle. Tell us a little more about that.
Brenda Davis:
And I have to tell, I have to tell you that what did it for me actually, which sort of pushed me over the edge completely, was one of our closest friend who was on his way deer hunting. And he stopped by the house and I thought, "I can't stand the thought of him shooting this beautiful, innocent creature for no reason." And I said to him, "I don't get why you do this. Like, does it make you feel like more of a man? Like, what is this all about? Why would you do something like that?" And it was what he responded to me that actually changed the course of my life. Because he said, "Just because you don't have the guts to pull the trigger, does not mean you are not responsible for the trigger being pulled every time you buy your piece of meat camouflaged in cellophane in the grocery store." And then he said, "At least the animals I eat have had a life. I doubt very much, you can say the same for the ones sitting on your plate."
Brenda Davis:
And that was the first time I'd ever been forced to really take responsibility for what I was purchasing. And so I just started researching and started to learn more and more about confined animal feeding operations. And all of the ways that we produce the meat that we eat. And the numbers of billions of animals that we slaughter every year. And I thought, "I don't want to be part of this system of cruelty anymore." And so that was it for me.
Brenda Davis:
But back to your question about my colleagues, I fully expected my colleagues would say, "She's fringe. She's on the outs, that's it." But it was quite the contrary. It was quite interesting because I can remember saying to myself, I having this debate with myself, whether or not I was going to stay in the profession. And I thought to myself, "If I, a person who's seeing a bigger picture here, a picture in terms of compassion environmental sustainability and human health. If everyone that gets it and sees this big picture, just leaves. What'll ever change?" I thought to myself, "I have to have the courage to stay and to stand for what I believe in." But I also thought to myself, "If I'm going to be pushing that envelope, I need to be very well informed. I need to have all my I's dotted and my T's crossed. I need to make sure that I can debate anyone in my profession."
Brenda Davis:
I mean, I spent my evenings reading nutrition guidelines and journal articles and just made sure that I knew my stuff. And what happened in very short order is that I was being invited to speak at the American Dietetic Association, annual conference and Canadian Dietetic Association. And in time, over 20 dietetic organizations all over the world, in Europe and in Asia and just all over the place. Because dieticians wanted to be able to provide their clients who were plant based with diets that would work. And so they trust a person who's a dietician more than it coming from ... I mean, when we wrote our first book on vegetarian nutrition, there really weren't books by registered dieticians on this topic out there. And so we were considered authorities and our colleagues respected us.
Brenda Davis:
I can remember speaking at the Canadian Dietetic Association annual conference. And I was doing an interview after my presentation in the main office of the dietetic association. And the head of the dietetic association came up to me afterwards and gave me a little gift. And she said, "I just want you to know that you make me proud to be a dietician." And I think that was one of the kindest things that I had heard at that point. I felt so validated and realized that I totally made the right choice to stay in the profession, to respect my colleagues and to share my knowledge with them in the way that I could. And so it was all good.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Yeah. Well, that's wonderful. I mean, you've done so much for the plant-based community over the years, and of course, you have to start somewhere. And it sounds like you had that stark realization, that aha moment when you had that conversation with your hunter friend. And then of course, you took that path of least traveled. And of course-
Brenda Davis:
Yes.
Dr. Travis Cox:
It's scary, it's a bit concerning-
Brenda Davis:
Yes.
Dr. Travis Cox:
But you did your homework and you have done so much. And it sounds like you were welcomed within your dietetics community, which is, I mean, reassuring, at the very least. But of course, helpful and probably encouraging along the way. And of course, you have to keep going.
Brenda Davis:
Amazing. I mean, even in 2000, I ended up being the chair of the vegetarian arm of the American Dietetic Association.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Wow.
Brenda Davis:
I was the first Canadian in that position. But yeah, it was really quite a journey. But it was really good. It was really good.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Yeah. And I think that's a parallel to some degree of most plant-based eaters is that when they move more towards being vegetarian or vegan, is that there's this, “I don't know what to do. I'm a bit scared.” Or the social element of getting that pushback from family and friends and-
Brenda Davis:
Yes.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Feeling like you're on the fringe. Like you're not a part of the mainstream diet or doing something that's weird or strange.
Brenda Davis:
Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Travis Cox:
But of course, that community is key with the support and of course, getting the right information. And then knowing what to do and having a little helping handle on the way, which is partly why we're here on the podcast.
Brenda Davis:
Absolutely.
Dr. Travis Cox:
So, I have another question for you. Personally, what was the biggest obstacle that you had to overcome when you were becoming plant based in the sense of yourself for your nutrition? Especially when you didn't know as much at the time, given the lack of information out there.
Brenda Davis:
Yeah. I think it would've been just the access to foods that were appropriate and fortified. I've always felt it's a lot easier to succeed with the plant-based milks that have added calcium and vitamin D and B12. When I started, it was illegal in Canada to fortify non dairy milks. You couldn't do that because it was competing too much with the dairy industry. And my writing partner, Vesanto Melina, and I started a petition to change that. And so we worked really hard to get that law changed in Canada. And now we have these milks that make it a lot easier to meet nutritional requirements, especially if you have a young family, like I did. To get the calcium where it needs to be and the vitamin D and so forth.
Brenda Davis:
So for me, that was the biggest challenge. There just wasn't great availability of products back then. And even some of the products were terrible. The cheeses 30 years ago were like plastic, they were horrible. Yeah, so those were big challenges. And of course, I had other challenges too, in terms of ... just to me, it's this social connection is so important. And you were just talking about that. And for me, that was probably my biggest challenge, not nutrition related. But in terms of making it work for my family, because our friends and family didn't understand and didn't support this choice at all. They thought it was dangerous and it was just silly. That part was hard.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Yeah, it truly is. And first of all, thank you so much for making those big waves within, of course, getting that petition going and getting plant-based milks being able to legally be fortified. Which just seems ridiculous to think about at this time.
Brenda Davis:
Oh yeah. Crazy.
Dr. Travis Cox:
But of course, a lot of us plant-based eaters need that, we lean on that calcium and added vitamin D-
Brenda Davis:
Yeah.
Dr. Travis Cox:
And B12. Especially in the plant-based milk. So, that's so huge. And interestingly, I feel like there's still a fair number of healthcare practitioners out there that believe that eating plant-based for young ones or pregnant women or lack kidney females, that it's dangerous and risky still to this day.
Brenda Davis:
Yeah. It's unfortunate because we have so much evidence to the contrary. As matter of fact, we have evidence that people raising children plant based, those children have lower risk of obesity later on, lower risk of chronic disease. They eat more fiber, they eat more fruits and vegetables, they eat fewer junk foods. They do really well. And as matter of fact, the veggie studies from Germany have shown really quite exceptional advantages and certainly similar nutrient intakes to the omnivorous children. But advantages in other respects. It's just not an issue. But we all have to remember that regardless of what dietary pattern you choose, when you're raising children, diets need to be appropriately planned. Whether they're omnivorous or plant based, that's the bottom line.
Dr. Travis Cox:
And that leads me to my next question, which is, what is your favorite at stage of life to work with? And it sounds like, to some degree, young families. But go ahead and explain more.
Brenda Davis:
Yeah. Oh, for sure. I do love working with young families and I love working with anyone who's trying to fine tune a plant based diet. I love when someone has a challenge and you can work with them to overcome that challenge. And I love working with older people who have chronic diseases and who have made a decision to try using plant-based diet as a treatment for those diseases, like heart disease or diabetes. And we see just amazing results for those people that are willing to make those kinds of changes.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Yeah. And is there a common unique need in the elderly population that they need to be careful with when pursuing a plant-based diet?
Brenda Davis:
Well, there are. I mean, when you think about seniors, their nutrient needs don't change a lot from other adults. But their caloric intake declines. And so they need a more nutrient dense diet, they need more nutrients per calorie. The other thing is their ability to digest and absorb nutrients diminishes. So for example, protein, their needs may increase by 25% because they're just not digesting it and absorbing it, as well. And that's true for other nutrients, like vitamin B12, as you know, our ability to produce gastric acid and the enzymes necessary to digest or to absorb B12 diminish then we'll get less. And so we just need to be very aware that the diet needs to be a little more nutrient dense for seniors. And often the exact opposite happens, you see seniors eating tea and toast. And instead of the greens and beans that they should be eating.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Absolutely. And similarly, do you find that there's a common theme of what needs are of young ones that are eating plant-based primarily?
Brenda Davis:
Yeah. And again, a lot of children tend to gravitate towards the starchy foods, the pasta and bread and all of those things, which isn't terrible. It's just, we need to infuse them with some beans and tofu and the more protein rich foods and calcium rich foods and the iron rich foods. And so we need to make sure there's a good balance there.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). And you talk more at length about these very topics in your recent book, Nourish, correct?
Brenda Davis:
Yes. So Nourish is really a guidebook for families. We walk people through all the stages from pregnancy and lactation to infancy, to the toddler years and childhood and adolescence and so forth. And all of the challenges, picky eating and all of those kinds of things. But also very specific about nutrient needs and how to achieve what children need.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Well, what's the biggest tip you could give to a young family, regardless of what stage they're at with being pregnant or having newborns for being healthy while being plant-based?
Brenda Davis:
Well, I would say just get informed. Make sure that you're covering your nutrient basis. So there is a source of B12, there's a source of vitamin D. You've got a good source of iodine in the diet, you've got plenty of sources of iron. And that your diet is varied. And that you're not ignoring that legume group, as well. Legumes, nuts and seeds are really valuable foods for families. And of course, the vegetables and fruits and lots of grains and so forth. But you want to have that.
Brenda Davis:
Really, that's why we develop these food guides. Even Canada's food guide now is very, very plant friendly. But food guides help people to see. So at every meal, you're wanting to have foods from a variety of food groups. And it is covering those bases of the nutrients of concern, particularly B12, vitamin D and iodine. And even the omega-3 fatty acids can be an issue.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Brenda Davis:
So those are things to consider.
Dr. Travis Cox:
So definitely looking out for those nutrients of concern, as you mentioned.
Brenda Davis:
Yeah.
Dr. Travis Cox:
But also a varied whole food plant based diet, including the legumes.
Brenda Davis:
Yes. Yes.
Dr. Travis Cox:
And I laugh because my youngest son who's nine, he's pescatarian, but he does not enjoy legumes as much as I would like him to. It's challenging-
Brenda Davis:
Yeah.
Dr. Travis Cox:
But it's often about getting the right recipes that make it a tasty meal, that's fun. And of course, exploring those different options. But it's not always a slam dunk for him.
Brenda Davis:
No. So I know with my daughter, black bean tacos, the kids just love. They love ... she's always, from the time they were little tots, she's always given them just beans as a snack. So when she has her little snack bags, one of the bags will be just beans. Usually just out of a can, like organic black beans out of a can. And they would just eat them and they loved them. If they had five things to pick from, they would often pick the beans because they were salty-
Dr. Travis Cox:
Yeah.
Brenda Davis:
And they like that. But the other thing is, is if they're not so inclined, quite often they'll love tofu. And we used to do this, it was like Kentucky fried, but with tofu. So you would do breading it with nutritional yeast and seasonings and then cooking it in the oven or on a frying pan. And it's a little bit crispy and the kids just love tofu in that way. And then the other thing is the legume pastas. Often they don't even know that they're made of legumes, they just love pasta. So there's chick pea pasta and black bean pasta and lentil pasta and all of that-
Dr. Travis Cox:
Absolutely.
Brenda Davis:
Is another way to get them in there.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Yeah. So just keep on trying to make it varied and make it-
Brenda Davis:
Keep on trying.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Tasty, too. Right?
Brenda Davis:
Don't give up. Exactly. Make it tasty.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Absolutely. So my next question is, just sharing one of your greatest patient success stories that was on the plant-based lifestyle.
Brenda Davis:
Yeah. So I will share my favorite story and it's about a patient, his name is Carlos. And this story began ... I love this story because of how it actually. His son, Andreas, developed cancer, a very rare cancer when he was about 36 years of age. And Andreas was a lawyer and he was very a detail oriented person. And he searched far and wide to see if there was anything he could do personally to increase his chance of survival. And he was a huge foodie. When I say he was a huge foodie, he was probably one of the biggest foodies I've ever met in my life. Like he would go fly to Paris for a weekend and spend $3,000 on a meal. And he would buy the $500 bottle of wine at the restaurant and just the fanciest options you can imagine, it was his hobby.
Brenda Davis:
And he went from that to being a hundred percent plant-based, hardcore, whole foods, high, raw diet. And I ended up being the dietician that helped him with all of this. And anyway, his whole family, when he began to embark on this plant-based diet. And of course his whole family, they were all foodies. But they decided that whatever diet Andreas was following, they would follow. So they could eat as a family and just support him through his journey. And this story, I mean, to make it nice, Andreas went into remission fairly rapidly. But the real story is his father Carlos.
Brenda Davis:
And so I want to read you, I actually have right in front of me, this Andreas' father wrote down what happened to him. And so I just want to read this story because it's quite amazing. He says, "I was diagnosed with type two diabetes when I was 50. For the next 20 years, I was injecting 35 to 40 units of insulin per day. I was also on other diabetic medications include for example, [inaudible 00:21:48] Metformin. In total, I was taking 17 pills a day. I had coronary heart disease, I had already had a heart attack, I had high blood pressure, early signs of kidney failure, peripheral artery disease, chronic gout, among their other ailments. I believed that my conditions were irreversible and progressive. With respect to my diabetes in particular, based on what my doctors told me and based on what the generally distributed literature on diabetes say. I knew that my diabetes was in irreversible disease.
Brenda Davis:
Then my oldest son was diagnosed with cancer. After going through the recommended treatment, he set out to research what he'd be able to do on his own to give his body the best fighting chance. His ultimate conclusion was that a whole food plant based diet, free of all animal products, processed foods, sugar, free oils, et cetera, would be the wisest option. He reached his final conclusion and he and his wife guided primarily by Brenda Davis and Michael Klaper changed their diets. To support him, my wife and I changed our diets, as well. As to my conditions, I was being treated at UC San Francisco, one of the best medical institutions in the world. I was so confident that I needed the medication I was taking, all 17 pills. And I believed my conditions could be managed, but never reversed.
Brenda Davis:
What happened after I changed my diet was and still is unbelievable to me. Within weeks, I cut my medication, significantly lost weight and started feeling a fundamental change in my body. Today, after about a year and a half on a whole food plant based diet, I take zero insulin and zero pills. My fasting sugar is now between 80 and 87, which is normal. Those are milligrams per deciliter numbers. And my A1C is normal, 5.0 to 5.1. My blood pressure is 115 over 70 with no medications. Prior to this, my blood pressure could never be controlled, even with two medications. My arteries have opened up, the scar tissue resulting from my heart attack has shrunk. My kidney function is now perfectly normal. I no longer take medication I was prescribed for this problem.
Brenda Davis:
I have averted and possibly reversed peripheral artery disease. In short, I reversed all of the conditions I knew were progressive and irreversible. Today, I had to go to my DMV to renew my driver's license. The driver bureau, whatever you call it. I could not believe that I answered no to the question, do you have diabetes? I am no longer diabetic. This may sound incredible, but it's true." I just love what happened with Carlos. And I've seen this on a number of occasions, but I love Carlos' story because he didn't believe any of that could happen.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Absolutely. Wow. That's amazing. And that's the father of the son that you were treating and he just did it to support his son.
Brenda Davis:
That's right.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Wow.
Brenda Davis:
And of course, I helped Carlos, as well, once he got on the bandwagon, just giving him some guidelines. And it was really exciting to see the whole family, their health transformations were just insane. But they were committed. Boy, they followed advice to the T. The change in your health coincides with how extreme your changes in your lifestyle are. So they were willing to go all the way and it really paid off for them.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Absolutely. That's phenomenal. Wow. And it's a Testament to how powerful eating a plant-based diet that's based on the whole food nutrition that supports health and wellbeing can be. Right.
Brenda Davis:
Yeah, exactly.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Wow.
Brenda Davis:
Yeah.
Dr. Travis Cox:
That's amazing. Thanks for sharing that.
Brenda Davis:
You bet.
Dr. Travis Cox:
So my next question is, if you don't mind describing a patient story that you didn't get success with, with a plant-based diet. And not necessarily the story itself, but just what aha moment you may have had as a result of that.
Brenda Davis:
Well, it's interesting. I actually just recently I had a lady and it wasn't that I was working with her and she didn't do well. But rather, she was following the low fat, plant based diet and like a whole food, low fat plant based diet. And she actually ended up protein deficient. And she came to me wondering if she was protein deficient. And so all of her symptoms, like she had thinning hair, she had fragile skin, she had brittle nails. She was losing muscle mass. Her osteoporosis had been getting significantly worse. She was sure her immune system was not working well. I mean, infections would just linger.
Brenda Davis:
And so she had all of these things and I said, "Well, let's just do a little assessment." And she was eating about 35 grams of protein a day. And I told her, at her age, she's 81 years old. And I told her at her age, she probably needs closer to 1.1 grams of protein a day, because for the average adult it's 0.9. If you're eating a truly whole food plant based diet, you might add 10% to make it 0.9 grams per kilogram. But for a senior, you might add 20, 25% to that. And so 1.1, I would say is a reasonable lower end to aim for. Which meant for someone her weight, she was 60 kilos, that she should be aiming for about 66 grams a day, which was almost double what she was eating. And we've just been working on this for a few months, but she's been noticing quite remarkable changes and improvements in her stamina and everything else with eating a bit more protein.
Brenda Davis:
One interesting thing is she gets night sweats if she eats a lot of protein at night. And so she tries to concentrate her protein at breakfast and lunch, and then eat a little bit lighter supper. The reason I wanted to share this particular story is because so many plant-based enthusiasts say you can't become protein deficient, it's impossible. I've learned on a number of occasions that it is very much possible. I've seen it on several occasions, especially in seniors. So I think that we can't just assume that no matter what we eat, we'll get plenty of protein. Because it's not always the case.
Brenda Davis:
Then the other thing I want to say about sometimes going to extremes with low fat, entirely whole food plant based diets is that ... and I've seen probably four or five cases in the last two years. Of people that get so obsessed with it, that they end up losing too much weight. And I actually had a lady not long ago that had a BMI of 12.6 on a whole food plant based diet, trying to do it perfectly. I had two others that had BMIs in the low sixteens. And this is a big concern to me.
Brenda Davis:
I think what we have to remember is our food should be joyful, it should be delicious, it should be enjoyable. It should be able to maintain health in our bodies. And when we sink to way below a healthy weight range, that's not a good thing. That's not what we're striving for. And perfection, we don't necessarily need to be striving for perfection. Progress, yes. Perfection, not necessarily. And so we do want to be eating really healthfully, but it's okay to have a treat. It's okay to have something that's not perfect and just enjoy it. Christmas is coming up, we might even eat cookies and that's okay. It's perfectly okay to have some fun foods amongst all of our healthy fair.
Dr. Travis Cox:
I like that, progress is key, but perfection is not always is best.
Brenda Davis:
Yes, exactly.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Yeah. And that's interesting because a lot of the evidence points to vegans having to lean body mass index. And that's usually a beneficial thing, but there's another issue with being underweight. And it sounds like that perfectionist mentality around being so strict with that whole food plant based diet led to under nutrition and of course, being unhealthfully low at weight.
Brenda Davis:
Yeah, absolutely.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Yeah.
Brenda Davis:
And it's true. We see consistently, as a matter of fact, in EPIC Oxford of looking at the BMI of people with different dietary patterns. So, similar health conscious individuals, but some who are vegan, some who are vegetarians, some who are pescatarian, some who are omnivore. And what we see consistently is that the vegans have the lowest BMI. And it's always within a healthy range in these studies. In the Adventist Health study, the vegans were actually the only ones that were in the healthy BMI range, everybody else, the vegetarians, the pescatarians, the omnivores, were all above the 24.9 BMI, on average, which is not good.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Yeah. So of course, it's advantageous to be hopefully plant based for body mass index and of course, avoiding obesity and all those metabolic syndromes. But if it's not well planned, you can also have negative health effects. Whether it be the protein example from that senior patient you had, or this other individual who didn't eat enough calories by the sounds of it.
Brenda Davis:
Exactly.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Yeah.
Brenda Davis:
Yeah.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Okay. Well, thanks for sharing that. That's very insightful.
Brenda Davis:
You bet.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Yeah. And my last question would be, before we wrap up would be, what would be the one tip you'd swear by on a plant-based diet that you'd share with others?
Brenda Davis:
I think that what I said about, don't strive for perfections, strive for progress. Take things one step at a time, celebrate every step you take in the right direction. Get educated, learn to cook really good tasting plant-based food and share that food with other people. Be joyful and encouraging to others, rather than being sort of angry and judgemental. We want to widen our circles of compassion. We want to reach out to others, but we need to do it in a way that doesn't feel threatening to people. And that just embraces them-
Dr. Travis Cox:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Brenda Davis:
And everybody loves good food. I'll never forget one time my husband asked me, on the spur of the moment, "Can I bring some out of town people home for supper?" And he did. And I made a really nice meal. And the next day at work, the other people at Paul's work were teasing him saying, "So you guys had a vegetarian meal last night." And they both said at the same time, "No, we didn't. What are you talking about?"
Dr. Travis Cox:
Little did they know.
Brenda Davis:
It didn't even dawn on them that they had a vegetarian meal because they had so much delicious food.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Brenda Davis:
They didn't miss anything because it was a really lovely meal. And so I think that's the point is to just be joyful, share your food and just be kind to people. Rather than that sort of angry, judgmental vegans, which is so stereotypical.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Totally.
Brenda Davis:
We want to be compassionate.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Absolutely.
Brenda Davis:
Yeah.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Absolutely. And could you please share the listeners an inspirational quote.
Brenda Davis:
I have so many favorite inspirational quotes, but the one that I'm thinking about right now is just one by Jane Goodall that I just love. "You cannot get through a single day without having an impact on the world around you. What you do makes a difference. And you have to decide what kind of difference it is that you want to make." And I love this quote because it just encourages people to recognize the power of their personal choices. And that, I think how important these choices really are.
Brenda Davis:
And our example is individuals really, maybe the most powerful tool we have to move other people. Our choices can inspire others and in doing so, we, again, just to sort of widen the circles of compassion, we improve environmental sustainability. We add healthy years to our lives. It's not even necessarily about living to 100, as much as it is to have extra healthy years. Nobody wants to be stuck in a home, in a bed where they can't even move. We want to have more healthy years. And I think that's what a plant-based diet can do for us.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Absolutely. And that seemed to tie in nicely with your initial experience, with the eye opening conversation with the hunter around the power of choice. And even though he was eating meat, but you were, as well. But you were eating it out of a cellophane wrapped store bought-
Brenda Davis:
Yeah.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Source, that was probably not as humane as the one he was looking at.
Brenda Davis:
Absolutely.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Yeah. Awesome. Well, obviously you are very prolific with your writings and you contribute so much to the plant-based community. For our listeners that want to follow up with more of the information that you have to share, where can they find more about your books and your other resources that you have?
Brenda Davis:
Yeah. Well, I have a website, BrendaDavisRD.com. And I wish I was better with all this social media and all of that. But I tend to be busy in projects, but I do have all the information about my books there. And the most recent ones are Nourish and the two diabetes books, the Kick Diabetes Cookbook and Kick Diabetes Essentials.
Dr. Travis Cox:
Perfect. I'll put those links in the show notes, as well, for our listeners-
Brenda Davis:
Oh, thank you.
Dr. Travis Cox:
To follow up with. And of course, thanks again so much for joining us today, Brenda. I really appreciate you joining the show.
Brenda Davis:
Well, thank you so much for having me, Travis. It was my pleasure.
